AYD 25 | Goddess Energy


Many people feel disconnected from their lives, without any energy. So how can you tap into your goddess energy and live a better, more fulfilling, more sensual life? We discuss the answers and more as Baeth Davis interviews motivational speaker, coach, and author, Patty Alfonso. Patty discusses masculine and feminine energy, her journey towards understanding both, and learning to let the energy flow. Learn more about unleashing your goddess energy and becoming in tune with your human design by listening in.

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Patty Alfonso, 5/2 Generator: Releasing Your Goddess Energy

This is the show where I bring on interesting, fascinating, innovative, creative people who I feel are living their purpose and they also feel they are living their purpose. We find out about how they got into the interesting and innovative work that they do. We sometimes go down some interesting rabbit holes together. Typically at the end of the show, we look at the guest’s human design chart. We take one question from the guest about their chart and we dive in. It’s always helpful to have your chart available. I will do my best to explain it.

We’re going to talk about sex, but not just sex. We’re going to talk about being sensual, being alive and orgasmic. We’re going to talk about polarity and managing your internal, masculine, and feminine energies because they live in all of us, regardless of your sex or your orientation. Your masculine and feminine energies are a wonderful tool available to you when you know how to use them. They can create great pleasure or pain in your life, depending on how you’re using those energies.

Let me tell you a little bit about our guest, then I’ll bring her on. We’ll have a discussion and then we will look at her human design chart. Our guest is Patty Alfonso. She’s known as the Orgasmic Body Whisper. She is a sought-after motivational speaker, writer, and leader who has notably changed the lives of thousands. She has spoken in front of royalty, thought leaders, and influencers around the world. She’s the author of the number one bestselling books, Your Body As The Creation of Consciousness and Dancing As The Body of Consciousness.

Patty hosts a TV show, Orgasmic Living, where she helps listeners unlock the innate wisdom of their bodies so they can create anything they desire. Patty is also featured in the Netflix documentary, Stripped Down, Rise Up, which follows a group of women as they shed their body image shame, sexual abuse locked in their bodies and embark on a journey to reclaim themselves through pole dancing. I’ve done a pole dancing class with Patty and it was wonderful. I’ve also seen Patty pole dance and she is amazing.

If you want to see classy, innocent, and sexy all at the same time, you should check out Patty Alfonso’s pole dancing. With that, let’s bring on Ms. Patty Alfonso, the creator of Pole Dancing For Consciousness and the Orgasmic Body Love Experience. We’re going to dive deep into our conversation. Let me bring her on.

Welcome to the show, Ms. Patty Alfonso.

What a lovely introduction.

You have a background in Sociology, body-mind counseling, energy healing therapy, pole-dancing, tantra, and so much more. I want to know, were you always this alive and in your body?

AYD 25 | Goddess Energy
Goddess Energy: You can only do so much of that and inviting that masculine essence into your life can invite you to a deeper level.



Where were you before tantra and pole dancing?

You and I met at a tantra class.

I remember the guy you were dating. I remember it clearly.

Where was I? Somewhere out there? Somewhere far away outside of my body. I’m not really present at all in my body and not present with the energy that’s available when you have a body. I was stiff, rigid, numb, no sensation during sex, totally disconnected, unhappy, and depressed. I had no direction in life. I had a sense that there was something that I was supposed to be creating, but I was so disconnected from myself and my body that it wasn’t arising from within me because I was just somewhere out there managing this body from far away.

You were the puppet master of yourself. What was the turning point? Was it a particular decision you made on a particular day or did it slowly unfold through a series of choices and new behaviors?

The answer to that is both. In 2007 or 2009, I was in energy healing school. My life had gotten to this point where I was miserable, stuck in every day of going to work, coming home, making dinner, watching TV, going to sleep, and doing that over and over. I was bored, so I ended up in energy healing school. I had this deep desire. I knew I wanted to help people and make the world a better place. I came in with that. That had always been my directional go-there energy. When I was in energy healing school, I knew that something was missing, but I didn’t know what.

I was like, “There is an energy I’m not letting myself have and be. I don’t know what it is, but something.” For our certification, we had to find a movement to add to our daily self-care and self-practice. I’m sure that they thought I was going to find yoga, Qigong, or Zumba, but no because this is just how my life is. I ended up in a pole dancing class. It was just an introduction. I remember saying, “I want to reconnect to my goddess energy.”

The feminine is rooted in love, beauty, surrender, and opening. Those are all divinely innate feminine qualities.

I took the class. I loved it. When my teacher did the demo, I was like, “I’m not letting myself be that energy.” It was at that moment that I realized how much I had cut myself off from the body’s innate orgasmic, alive, juicy, delicious energy. That energy had been made of so wrong in my life that I was like, “Nothing going on down here. Don’t look down here.” That moment is when the journey began.

It’s not ever just like one thing. It can be, but that one thing is the beginning to the next. That led me on this journey of pole dancing, tantra, connected to my body, and allowing myself to be everything. This myself in this body have come here to be joyful, beautiful, sensual, feminine and sometimes masculine, present, soft, surrendered and sometimes in your face. It’s been a journey of discovering all of the energies that are available to us and allowing myself and my body to be them in whatever is required at any moment. It’s still exploring. It’s not ever over.

I have noticed something on this subject that has blown my mind. I am recovering from breast cancer, which best I can determine spiritually and psychologically came from way over-giving, over mothering, over nourishing and doing too much. I come from not receiving. They’re not getting equal and return. I learned it from my family. The more I study my family on both sides, it goes back in many generations, this over-giving.

It turns out that I am a poor processor of estrogen. I’m estrogen dominant and I went, “That would be an over-giver problem.” I noticed when I was kissing my boyfriend’s forehead, I was aware I was giving him love. It occurred to me because of all the training you and I ever doing. I tuned in and went, “That’s masculine. I see it now. I’m giving love. I’m conscious. I want to kiss him, touch him and let him know how much he means to me. What if I just had a mantra in my head that was, ‘I receive?’”

I’m sharing this for all the women readers because the moment my mind starts running that mantra, I lean back and relax every time his body moves towards me. Every time he grabs, kisses, takes me into his arms. He’s a big guy and I love it. I’m a very strong-willed person, as you know. I feel so small and cared for. I feel petite, like a little fairy. I wanted to share that because you and I have been on this journey together in and out of each other’s lives, learning about this masculine and feminine energy. I keep learning myself how to back off and receive, how the change in the other person is instantaneous when I’m not pushing my energy out, but rather, at times, letting energy come towards me.

The feminine is rooted in love, beauty, surrender, and opening. Those are all divinely innately feminine qualities. I love how you’ve made that distinction. We’re in that energy. We’re in the beaming love to everyone and everything. We take that, go into the masculine, direct it and take it into action. This is a total energy dynamic playing with energy and what can happen when you shift your own energy and how it can affect the people around you. Surrendering into love, the feminine, and letting go, that is the invitation because when you’re being that energy, surrendering totally, and opening into that energy, there is no doing. It is all about being. That invites the masculine to step in and come.

I was having a talk with my lover about how did we get all so insane in this area and looking at women who are controlling, dominating, how did they become that, and how did the men around them become so passive? It’s a mind-blowing topic that we could probably go on and on forever and ever. It’s the practice for us, especially because we are so on purpose, which is very masculine, and to be on purpose, have direction, keep things moving forward, and always be in that directional mode. I remember as a woman, when I was really wanting to invite the masculine in and to have a partner because I had been single for a very long time, I was like, “Can I let go of control? Can I be led?”

I love it. My partner also does that. He’s so manly when he grabs and squeezes me tight. I’m not fighting against that and surrendering, even the way he holds my hand engulfing me. You mentioned polarity, Finding those moments where we can be both in the energy. When his energy, his delicious masculine and I’m open, surrendering and letting go allowing myself to be led by this masculine presence. That’s where I get to soften. When he grabs my hand, he does it so purposefully, with such intention and presence or when he holds me so tightly that I have to choose to let go, surrender, soften, opening and receiving that energy.

AYD 25 | Goddess Energy
Goddess Energy: Allow consciousness and the universe to support you.


It’s been a practice for me because I haven’t always had healthy, masculine energy in my life. Sometimes in that energy, I have to soften, not resist it, get present with it, and know that I am safe, cared for, and everything is okay because the body responds. It’s like, “Here’s this masculine energy,” and being present, willing, and able to discern the delicious, healthy, masculine energy versus the past toxic, masculine energy that I’ve been aware of. It’s a dance and I’m enjoying moving in that dance.

Don’t you think as we become more receptive, less controlling, more open to people giving to us, particularly our partners, that we do attract different kinds of energy?

A hundred percent. It’s also allowing consciousness and the universe to support you as well receiving and encompasses all of that. When we let go of the control of what we think in our minds, we have to do, then whether it’s the universe or your partner, whatever it can contribute to you in a whole different way that is beyond your mind, crazy, limitations, past and everything that you were thinking before. It’s interesting because of this concept of receiving. I feel like we’re diving into it as a collective in such a different way. It isn’t something that we have been taught in this reality. It’s an energy that’s opening for people to discover and play with like, “What is receiving for me and for my body? What is that?”

You and I are both in relationships with younger men. It’s a two-part question. 1) How did you and your guy meet? 2) What is attractive to you about dating someone younger than you?

We met at a plant medicine retreat and we both had an ask in our universe for partnership. We’ve both been on this individual solo journey of rediscovering ourselves, stepping into more of our greatness, and all of that. We both came to this point where we were like, “I’m ready to explore this in partnership.” The medicine I was asking like, “What’s next?” I was on sabbatical for my business and I’m looking at like, “What’s the next evolution? What’s the next version of what I’m ready to be in the world?” He was asking similar questions and we feel grandmother was like, “What’s next? Here.”

It was such a clear experience of the divine feminine, which I was embodying and the divine masculine, which he was embodying. I remember at that moment, I’m lying there. I also was asking like, “What’s it like to live undefended? What would that look like to be undefended? No defenses, no limitations, no past stories, no nothing.” I was laying there feeling totally surrendered into the feminine, open and feeling like, “This energy that I will be and that my body has that I think a lot of us have, this is the healing. This could be healing for the world.” Simultaneously. I’m embodying all of this feminine energy and he is being this masculine presence that is holding me. It was just one of the most magical experiences that I’ve had.

We knew at that moment like, “There’s something here. There is an offering that our bodies together can give the world that is greater than anything we’ve been doing on our own.” It was so clear. It’s been a process of surrendering into that wisdom, grandmother or the universe and letting go of logic. He’s quite a bit younger than I am and all that crazy story that comes up. I’m like, “This is the message that we both received so clearly from the universe.” When you ask for something and the universe puts it in front of you, who are you to say no? Why would you do that?

Over time, what I have noticed that I love deeply about his essence is around the innocence of life, living, and love. There’s not a lot of baggage, not a ton of failed relationships to bring into the relationship, and this beautiful sweet innocence. I love that energy in the bedroom. I think you said this in the introduction. I also have a lot of innocence, curiosity, wonder, and joy. Having that energy in the bedroom is spectacular. It’s amazing. I love that out of all the other things that keep showing up. What’s it like for you?

I concur with a lot of what you’re saying. There’s a moment sometimes when I look in his eyes and I’ve said this to him, “The mask comes off.” He says, “What do you mean?” I said, “There’s a mask that we all wear when we go out in the world. It’s, ‘don’t come too close, keep your distance, let me check you out kind of protection.’” There are moments where it comes off your face and the look in your eyes is pure innocence, pure wonder, people who leave and dilate a bit. I’ll see him, the curiosity, openness and willingness. That encourages me to open even more it’s.

What happens with the feminine over time when she doesn’t really cultivate her femininity is we harden, close off, defend, and protect.

In many ways, I feel it is a reclaiming from myself of lost innocence. The places I started to shut down at 11, 12, 13, and 14. That was the age I started shutting down my sexual desire and vulnerability. I’d been bullied in school. I learned how to defend myself very well. I learned that if I was in control and I made myself relatively indispensable to people, they always needed me for something, and it lowered the rate of rejection. There was a huge cost to that because like you, I couldn’t feel my body. I would have intercourse and I couldn’t feel anything. I just felt the pressure. I could tell there was a body bumping into my body, but that was about it.

I kept thinking, “Why is there all this hoopla about sex?” I knew deep down there was something there. Being a very physical touchy, feely person, I knew there was another world waiting for me. It was going to require me thawing out and opening up. I didn’t know how to do that, but it started with ecstatic dance in my twenties, then moving into tantra in my 30s and 40s, and then doing plant spirit medicine, traveling around the world, and working with different shamans. Bit by bit, my I’ve continued to open. I did not die from the illnesses I contracted from being stressed out and shut down. I feel like I’m living a whole new life. I’m reborn, in a way.

That’s where we set it. This was our tantra journey together was many lifetimes ago. That is what happens with the feminine over time when she doesn’t cultivate her femininity. We harden, close off, defend and protect. It’s interesting when you were talking about this innocence as well. It painted my universe like, “That’s part of what I think maybe the masculine is missing in the healthy masculine, their innocence, and curiosity.”

When we look at that spectrum of living costs, toxic masculinity and then healthy, vibrant, giving the energy is definitely something that I think could be added to explore that curiosity is so important. I wonder what all of this will create. I know that, for me, it has been a gift of softening, surrendering, allowing, and letting go. As the feminine, we can only do so much of that for ourselves and inviting that masculine essence into your life can invite you to a deeper level.

The sex itself for me has been so profound as well, because not only do I love this man. I like him. I respect him. I have loved people and I love their soul, but their personality made me want to put a fist through the wall. I was like, “If you had a better personality, we’d have a great relationship.” Now I’m with someone who has a fabulous personality and a wonderful rye way of looking at the world. The physical interaction is all the colors and flavors. Sometimes we’ll go into that dark animalistic, push-pull in me energy, and then other times, there’s just playful and goofy. Sometimes it’s very sensual, very loving, and we’re both crying because our hearts are so open.

I stepped on the scale. I’ve lost 16 pounds since I started dating this guy. I have an hourglass figure I’ve never had in my life. I know it’s from the energy of love. It’s from that testosterone getting into my body. I have this whole theory about fluids in this world of, “Safe sex.” I’m not against safe sex. For everyone out there reading, get tested and talk to your new partners, but there’s a place where it just goes off the rails. What happens for women and for men who aren’t in a regular committed dynamic is they’re not getting that regular physical interaction. Our bodies are designed to have sex a lot. Every day is ideal for most people.

I asked my friends who are struggling in the relationship. I’m like, “How when are you having sex?” They’ll go, “We’re not.” I’m like, “That’s your problem.” “We don’t feel like it.” I said, “It isn’t about whether you feel like it or not. You do it to connect with the person. You do it to have a conversation with them. It may or may not lead to the best orgasm of your life, but that physical closeness regulates your cortisol, lowers your blood pressure, opens up your mind, reminds you of why you love this person, and you don’t even have to orgasm. It’s just get together.” I’ve done that practice and I’ve talked with him about it. I said, “I need you tonight. It’s not even about sex tonight. It’s about connecting.” He’s like, “I get it.”

We’re making an effort. We get so busy. It’s easy to be like, “I’m too tired. I don’t feel like it.” We start shutting it down again because I think the intimacy keeps increasing the more you let another person into your heart, and it’s very scary. The more you let someone in, the more it’s going to be a big old heartache when they leave or die because everybody leaves eventually one way or the other. Even if you die together, the end is coming at some point.

AYD 25 | Goddess Energy
Goddess Energy: That merging of energy, that creation in that moment, comes from the deep intimacy and connection that is already established.


We’re all attuned to the end. What I’m practicing is staying in the moment, being grateful for what is, bringing my full self to what is, and receiving that, not worrying about the future. Not that we don’t talk about the future, but not being obsessed with the future, “What does this mean?” It’s because we’re older and we’ve had a fair number of relationships, one of the things that’s attractive about us is we’re not trying to lock a guy down. We don’t need like, “I need you to marry me by this date.” It’s not about that. It’s like, “Do I like your soul, body, and all of it?”

Speaking of the intimacy and connection when it comes to being with another body sex copulation, I noticed when we were having sex, there was energy emanating from within my body and his body. Those energies came together, commingled, and created whole other energy that engulfed us. It was so innocent, delicious, soft, and healing. After we were done, tuning into my own body after that delicious healing, let’s look at sexual healing when you’re with your partner. What is possible with that energy? I could feel every molecule in my body in a completely different way. There was a softness and a relaxation that was present that I was I slept so well that night. I’m not sure if that energy can be created in a one-night stand.

I don’t think so.

That merging of energy and creation in that moment comes from the deep intimacy and connection that is already established. That’s in searching for a long time. That’s what grandmother showed us in that ceremony. If you step into your masculine and feminine, this is a healing that can change the world.

I have chills of goodness running down my arms.

It was funny because I was working when I texted him and I was like, “Mr. Pellegrino, I’m checking in to see your availability for a dick appointment later on.” He responded, “I’ve got a prior engagement at 6:00, but I would love to be available around 7:00.” It ensued this texting flirting, but it was funny, cute, and joyful.

I began that text exchange and I was fully turned on and alive, wet, juicy, and all of a sudden, my day changed. Let’s look at orgasmic living. What is it that unites that energy within yourself and body in every single moment? What is that energy? We can all get stuck in super hyper-focused in the doing of this reality. That gets you out of your body, head, and thinking mind. How do you activate your body’s innate, delicious, yummy orgasmic energy? How does that energy create an affect your daily life? You spent the whole day totally giddy, turned on, excited, and happy. It was fun. What can we all create? If we were all being that energy in everyone in the world, what the heck would the world be like?

It’s pretty magical. I have one question for you and then let’s look at your design as we go into our home stretch here. If someone came to you to work with you, how would you work with them? How do you typically work with your clients?

Everybody’s body is different. There is no one formula for finding out what orgasmic living is. It’s about discovering what that is for you.

It depends on what the client needs. I do one-on-one work, VIP work, in-person or online. I group work and all kinds of different ways. Most people come to me because they want to find out what is orgasmic living to me. They want to have that energy in their life. They’re feeling disconnected, depressed, tired, and exhausted, especially after or in the energy that we’re all living in. They want to explore what orgasmic living is to them.

There’s a lot of different ways that we can do that. It’s a matter of us looking at what does your body need? What’s going to work for you and for your body so that we can ignite this energy in your life so that you can continue to cultivate that energy daily? This is like any other practice like yoga practice and you do your yoga every morning. Living orgasmically is a practice, “How do I activate this energy right now?” That’s a very personal journey of finding out what that is for you. Everybody’s body is different. There is no one formula for this. It’s about discovering what that is for you.

Let’s take a quick look at your human design chart. For some people, this is brand new, and for other people, this is not so brand new. What we’re essentially looking at is a circuit board. I like to ask each guest, as I asked you before the show, what you want to look at and you said, “Somebody mentioned something about money channel in my chart.” I want to talk with you about the money channels in the chart.

The actual money channel you don’t have is the 45-21. It is actually called the Money Channel. Donald Trump has this channel, just as an aside. I always think about the reports of his gold toilets. I’m like, “That would fit with the money channel.” However, there are a couple of other channels. There’s the 2-14, which is also about creating prosperity. I’m more about philanthropy and you don’t have that channel, but there are two others that you do have out of the four biggies.

There’s the money channel, and then there’s the 2-14 channel. Wherever we have channels, we’ve got skills. You have the 44-26, which connects your spleen to your heart. Gate 44 is off the spleen and Gate 26 is off the heart. I call it the entrepreneur channel. It has other names, but for all intents and purposes, this is about someone Gate 26 that knows how to do deals and Gate 44 knows by shaking hands which hands to keep shaking and let go of. It’s also very much linked to the sense of smell and you can sniff out the right people. You may find that your sense of smell is very heightened, and you can read people quickly just by their scent. You’ve heard the expression, “This doesn’t smell right. I smell a rat. This smells so good, the aroma.” You’re very attuned to that.

I do. I make this face where I’m like, “Something is off here.”

This channel helps you move through in a sense what’s transitory. It gives you a lot of flexibility. The heart floats out a bit disjointed in a way from the rest of the body graph. It doesn’t have tons of four connection points to the rest of the body graph. The 26-44 is the only connection over to the right side of your body. You had this wonderful flexibility. It also tends to show up for people who are good at graphic design, marketing, art, color, and form. There’s a real finesse around creating beauty and money. Hence, the entrepreneurial channels. When you have the entrepreneurial channel, you need to have your own business.

I met a woman and we looked at her chart. She had the money channel and almost all four of the money channels. She is working as a psychologist and I said, “You need to have an empire. What are you doing?” That’s the thing with conditioning. We can be totally off from what we’re here to do. I’m really glad you’re being entrepreneurial. The other channel is this 32-54. The 32 energy is trying to pick and choose what to keep for the future. In other words, what traditions should continue and should die? What gets carried forward for the legacy? 54 in the Ching is the gate of the marrying maiden and it’s about social climbing.

AYD 25 | Goddess Energy
Goddess Energy: That merging of energy, that creation in that moment, comes from the deep intimacy and connection that is already established.


It’s about social ambition, social achievement, and it’s in our DNA. The thing to remember with any of the information in this chart is it’s binary. You’re going to experience the range, the good, bad and ugly. As you evolve, this 32-54 would not be uncommon for you to be involved in a family business or receive money from a family business to build a business with a family or with a partner. It has that energy of family tribal, business, that mom-and-pop shop that has been around for 150 years. It’s that energy. It is the ambition and the fuel for ambition to create wealth. In order to create wealth, to leave a legacy, whereas the entrepreneur channel wants to do deals, be creative.

The 32-54 want to make money to leave a legacy. You have two major drivers in your design to create wealth, but for different reasons. One is because the entrepreneur channel goes with because it’s fun and creative. It’s an instinct for you and the defined heart gives you the willpower. You can keep your promises, be very disciplined, and stick with practices for a very long time. You can hang in there on a difficult business deal if you know it’s the right thing. You’re like, “There are glitches here, but I know it’s the right thing, so I’m just going to ride it out and see it through.” You’re not easily deterred with this design. You have a tremendous amount of staying power. The biggest challenges for you are to all the openness.

I know you’ll amplify other people’s emotions because you’re pretty steady emotionally. If you find yourself getting emotional, it’s probably somebody else’s emotions that you’re amplifying. You don’t always know what to say with an undefined throat, but as long as you’re communicating enthusiasm, you’ll be fine you are. You’re a very enthusiastic communicator. Your asana or neocortex is totally open, “What should I be thinking about? Does it matter?” Your head is undefined. You’re going to be getting inspiration all the time. I think you’ve learned to manage that to not get carried away with inspiration, just to notice it, “I’m inspired. It doesn’t mean anything. Let’s wait a moment here.”

You’ll end up thinking about a lot of stuff that isn’t relevant to you or you may not always know what’s the priority. It’s important for you to tune into your thoughts and ask yourself, “Is what I’m thinking about aligned to my purpose? Is it aligned to my design? Is what I’m thinking about even relevant to what interests me of late?” If it’s not, you can just wave it away. We need to stop here. How was that for you?

It’s amazing and totally just right on. That was wonderful. Before I became an entrepreneur, I would have jobs and I would always end up running their company, which is why I was like, “Why am I running other people’s company? Let me do my own.” This inspiration now to create with my partner. I’ve always had that desire to have a partner that we could create together and create something magnificent and magical that would last beyond our time. All of that was totally right on.

Thank you for your time. It was a joy to have you.

It’s always a joy to connect with you.

Everyone, thanks for tuning in. We have more chock-a-block episodes coming with juicy provocative content for you.

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About Patty Alfonso

AYD 25 | Goddess EnergyPatty Alfonso is The Orgasmic Body Whisperer. Patty is a sought-after motivational speaker, writer and leader who has notably changed the lives of thousands. She has spoken in front of royalty, thought leaders and influencers around the world. She is the author of the #1 Best-Selling books: Your Body as the Creation of Consciousness and Dancing as the Body of Consciousness. Patty hosts the TV show Orgasmic Living where she helps listeners unlock the innate wisdom in their bodies so they can create anything they desire! Patty is also featured in the Netflix Documentary Strip Down, Rise Up which follows a group of women as they shed body image shame, sexual abuse locked in their bodies, and embark on a journey to reclaim themselves through pole dancing.

* The #1 Mistake Keeping You From Living Orgasmically * Body Love: Ignite Your Innate Brilliance and Confidence
* How Your Body is a Catalyst for Transformation
* How to Ask for and Receive What You Most Want with Your Body

Patty is the Creator of Orgasmic Living, LLC, an organization dedicated to the empowerment of women accross the globe by offering them a different possibility with their bodies. Her Pole Dancing for Consciousness™ and Orgasmic Body Love Experience™ methods are a cutting-edge approach that transform the lives of her clients helping them move beyond pain and limitation by accessing the power of the body to heal itself. Patty holds numerous certifications including a bachelor’s degree in Sociology as well as Body/Mind Counseling and Energy Healing Therapy, Pole Dancing, Tantra and more.